Raja Caturbahu das Bhakti says: I was the first person to call out Rupanuga on his felonious conclusion to this conversation when it was posted on the sun yrs ago. The sun did not publish it. Rtvik-schmitvik, the bottom line and mind of the guru in this conversation is varnasrama dharma, not initiation. Initiation is secondary and leads to the actual heart of the matter of Daivi Varnasrama Dharma (DVD), that is the bottom line of our society.
Formal initiation is as secondary to this spiritual movement as farming is to understanding DVD. Devotees constantly put the cart in front of the horse, then spend yrs marveling at the sheer useless result of that action. Though never improving / changing. Yet expecting a different result. Even thought no change to the original scheme.. and no ability to recognize the faultily actions of implying Rtvik as a fix all! Prabhupada does not say rtvik will fix a broken society, but DVD will. Like always you good old boys miss the forest for the trees. Thousands of DVD references in our books and you focus on initiations. Useless waste of time for the last 4 decades
[PADA: At least the Prabhupadanugas have some sort of society building up, which can later on be divided up into categories of service. First of all, there has to be a group of people, then we can discuss how to divide that group into sections of services, by trying to decide who is more qualified to do what.
Chatur Bahu never identifies what group he is going to divide into categories of service? In formal ISKCON, their temples are pretty much empty, thus there is no group of people residing there to divide into categories. Moreover the GBC gurus are usually posting people with little or no skills to do certain tasks, their scheme is to reward loyal people with big posts -- even if those people are not qualified for the task.
Worse! The GBC guru folks are never EVEN going to agree that their gurus are not qualified for the job, never mind agree with any other problems. Their whole idea is to maintain artificial / false standards. Therefore we need to create another group from which, at some future time, we can create factual standards.
ISKCON is no longer a unified society, its temples are almost empty, there is barely any group present there anymore. In addition, the leaders are fighting among themselves, and no particular leader is accepted as authorized. Where does the society exist -- that is going to be sorted into divisions according to qualifications?
Sorry, the Prabhupadanuga idea is is the first idea that needs to be resolved. We need to create a group of people who accept the authority of the parampara first of all, otherwise, there is no group to be divided up. Also Raja Chaturbahu advertises himself as some sort of king, a Raja. He is the king of what kingdom? His apartment? Where is the society that Raja Chaturbahu is dividing and working according to varnasrama?
Sorry, our idea is the right idea, we first need to form a group, then we can work on organizing categories within the group -- later on. This is another reason the bogus gurus have been winning by default, we are trying to start some sort of process to rebuild things, and people like Chatur Bahu say, do not worry about forming a group, we need to focus on divisions within the group. What group? There is no group to divide? He is simply wasting time attacking our idea of forming a group in the first place, but he has no group, its phantasm. ys pd]
[PADA: At least the Prabhupadanugas have some sort of society building up, which can later on be divided up into categories of service. First of all, there has to be a group of people, then we can discuss how to divide that group into sections of services, by trying to decide who is more qualified to do what.
Chatur Bahu never identifies what group he is going to divide into categories of service? In formal ISKCON, their temples are pretty much empty, thus there is no group of people residing there to divide into categories. Moreover the GBC gurus are usually posting people with little or no skills to do certain tasks, their scheme is to reward loyal people with big posts -- even if those people are not qualified for the task.
Worse! The GBC guru folks are never EVEN going to agree that their gurus are not qualified for the job, never mind agree with any other problems. Their whole idea is to maintain artificial / false standards. Therefore we need to create another group from which, at some future time, we can create factual standards.
ISKCON is no longer a unified society, its temples are almost empty, there is barely any group present there anymore. In addition, the leaders are fighting among themselves, and no particular leader is accepted as authorized. Where does the society exist -- that is going to be sorted into divisions according to qualifications?
Sorry, the Prabhupadanuga idea is is the first idea that needs to be resolved. We need to create a group of people who accept the authority of the parampara first of all, otherwise, there is no group to be divided up. Also Raja Chaturbahu advertises himself as some sort of king, a Raja. He is the king of what kingdom? His apartment? Where is the society that Raja Chaturbahu is dividing and working according to varnasrama?
Sorry, our idea is the right idea, we first need to form a group, then we can work on organizing categories within the group -- later on. This is another reason the bogus gurus have been winning by default, we are trying to start some sort of process to rebuild things, and people like Chatur Bahu say, do not worry about forming a group, we need to focus on divisions within the group. What group? There is no group to divide? He is simply wasting time attacking our idea of forming a group in the first place, but he has no group, its phantasm. ys pd]
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