Hanging out with Tamal, founder of the illicit sex guru program.
Brahmanas should be avoided?
Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Goswami Maharaja on the subject of Ritvik.
"Fallen gurus are now becoming ritviks. You should do pranama to them from very far away. Don't mix with them, and always boycott them…." (July 30, 2000)
[PADA: OK wait a minute, where did all these fallen gurus come from? Narayana Maharaja was one of the persons who said Tamal's GBC's are diksha gurus (not ritviks), then they fell. He is the person who co-created the fallen diksha guru imbroglio. And! Why did Narayana Maharaja help Satsvarupa write the "Guru Reform Notebook," claiming that gurus deviate -- and then they have to be reformed? And why was NM giving "rasika" classes to these same people who were establishing that the parampara deviates and needs to be reformed? And why does NM think the GBC can "guru reform" an acharya in the first place?
Anyway! Suppose some of these fallen people NOW try to become more honest, and they want to try and become some sort of lesser category than diksha gurus, ok maybe "priests," and they will drop their false diksha guru title and -- we should not allow that? We should avoid them? That means -- they should not drop down to a more honest lower post, they should continue to cheat people that they are full scale diksha gurus, the program NM supported along with Tamal?
NM said we cannot designate these GBC people as ritviks, they have to keep the diksha guru title. That is what NM said all along, they cannot change their diksha guru designation to minor league priests. Why not? Why not encourage honesty?
Sridhara Maharaja also writes that acharyas sometimes "go mad" after money, women and followers, and Narayana Maharaja says Sridhara Maharaja is a great acharya -- because he thinks acharyas are maybe falling and debauchees? Shouldn't we boycott the people who say acharyas are perhaps mad fools -- who chase the skirts of women, take intoxicants, and sometimes fall into -- eating chicken salads? So NM says our folks have to be avoided because we say acharyas are pure, and we need to promote Sridhara Maharaja, because he says acharyas are maybe sexual predators and mad fools?
In sum, we should avoid brahmanas, who are presenting Srila Prabhupada as the acharya, and we should promote Sridhara Maharaja, because he says acharyas are many times mad fools and debauchees. Why should we promote the idea that acharyas are often fallen debauchees, and avoid the people who say the parampara is pure?
And! If they were all along only qualified to be priests at best, why should we not encourage them to step down from their fake diksha guru platform and take the level they are actually at, such as maybe a priest? The cheating must continue?
If they are cheating to be uttama gurus, that is fine, because NM has supported the GBC while they did that, but if they try to take a lower post, that is forbidden? Or? Sridhara Maharaja is correct, acharyas are falling? Or? Are we right, the people who fall are at best aspiring to be priests, they never were acharyas?
The cheating has to continue?
Why should we allow people to continue to cheat that they are diksha gurus? This makes no sense? Let them move down to their proper adhikara, why should we avoid them and attack them when they try to make a more honest situation? Anyway, this is what happened, Sridhara and Narayana Maharaja said that Tamal and his pals are diksha gurus, and they should not move down to a lesser level designations, and this created this atmosphere of cheating.]
"In our line there is guru, there is siksa guru, there is caitya guru, there is sravana guru, there is patha pradarsaka guru - so many gurus. Why go to these bogus ritvics? Be very far away from them. Be careful about them. We should be very careful about mayavadis, sahajiyas, and all nirvesesavadis…" (July 30, 2000)
Anyway! Suppose some of these fallen people NOW try to become more honest, and they want to try and become some sort of lesser category than diksha gurus, ok maybe "priests," and they will drop their false diksha guru title and -- we should not allow that? We should avoid them? That means -- they should not drop down to a more honest lower post, they should continue to cheat people that they are full scale diksha gurus, the program NM supported along with Tamal?
NM said we cannot designate these GBC people as ritviks, they have to keep the diksha guru title. That is what NM said all along, they cannot change their diksha guru designation to minor league priests. Why not? Why not encourage honesty?
Sridhara Maharaja also writes that acharyas sometimes "go mad" after money, women and followers, and Narayana Maharaja says Sridhara Maharaja is a great acharya -- because he thinks acharyas are maybe falling and debauchees? Shouldn't we boycott the people who say acharyas are perhaps mad fools -- who chase the skirts of women, take intoxicants, and sometimes fall into -- eating chicken salads? So NM says our folks have to be avoided because we say acharyas are pure, and we need to promote Sridhara Maharaja, because he says acharyas are maybe sexual predators and mad fools?
In sum, we should avoid brahmanas, who are presenting Srila Prabhupada as the acharya, and we should promote Sridhara Maharaja, because he says acharyas are many times mad fools and debauchees. Why should we promote the idea that acharyas are often fallen debauchees, and avoid the people who say the parampara is pure?
And! If they were all along only qualified to be priests at best, why should we not encourage them to step down from their fake diksha guru platform and take the level they are actually at, such as maybe a priest? The cheating must continue?
If they are cheating to be uttama gurus, that is fine, because NM has supported the GBC while they did that, but if they try to take a lower post, that is forbidden? Or? Sridhara Maharaja is correct, acharyas are falling? Or? Are we right, the people who fall are at best aspiring to be priests, they never were acharyas?
The cheating has to continue?
Why should we allow people to continue to cheat that they are diksha gurus? This makes no sense? Let them move down to their proper adhikara, why should we avoid them and attack them when they try to make a more honest situation? Anyway, this is what happened, Sridhara and Narayana Maharaja said that Tamal and his pals are diksha gurus, and they should not move down to a lesser level designations, and this created this atmosphere of cheating.]
"In our line there is guru, there is siksa guru, there is caitya guru, there is sravana guru, there is patha pradarsaka guru - so many gurus. Why go to these bogus ritvics? Be very far away from them. Be careful about them. We should be very careful about mayavadis, sahajiyas, and all nirvesesavadis…" (July 30, 2000)
[PADA: OK so now NM says that the brahmanas, aka the ritviks, cannot act as shiksha gurus. Krishna, on the other hand, says the brahmanas (ritviks) should preach to the other classes of the society. Why does Narayana Maharaja say that the brahmana / ritvik class of devotees are bogus -- at all?
Where does Krishna say, the brahmanas / aka ritviks are a bogus class, avoid them? Sudama was a brahmana and Krishna was very friendly with him, even Krishna does not avoid the brahmanas, only NM says we should distance ourselves from the brahmana / ritviks? Where in shastra does it say we have to avoid the preachers of the Krishna religion i.e. the brahmanas? As soon as we see Sudama brahmana, we avoid him and run away -- and maybe call him an offender?
And Srila Prabhupada says moreover that is the duty of a brahmana / ritvik to preach to the conditioned souls. NM says, that is bogus, a brahmana cannot act as a shiksha guru, a patha pradarsaka guru etc., but that is the whole purpose of being a brahmana, to teach the society (and act as a shiksha guru). Does NM have any clue what is the actual duty of a brahmana?
A brahmana should not act as a shiksha guru?
That will stop the preaching wholesale!
How will the preaching go on if none of the priests can preach? On the other hand, NM supported the GBC's idea, less than brahmanas can be worshiped as uttama diksha gurus? So the less than brahmanas can pose as diksha gurus, but the actual brahmanas have to stop all their preaching, they cannot give any shiksha teaching to others. How will the Vaishnava society function if the preaching class is ordered to stop preaching?]
"At present, real gurus are very rare, and the number of fallen ritviks are now growing."
Where does Krishna say, the brahmanas / aka ritviks are a bogus class, avoid them? Sudama was a brahmana and Krishna was very friendly with him, even Krishna does not avoid the brahmanas, only NM says we should distance ourselves from the brahmana / ritviks? Where in shastra does it say we have to avoid the preachers of the Krishna religion i.e. the brahmanas? As soon as we see Sudama brahmana, we avoid him and run away -- and maybe call him an offender?
And Srila Prabhupada says moreover that is the duty of a brahmana / ritvik to preach to the conditioned souls. NM says, that is bogus, a brahmana cannot act as a shiksha guru, a patha pradarsaka guru etc., but that is the whole purpose of being a brahmana, to teach the society (and act as a shiksha guru). Does NM have any clue what is the actual duty of a brahmana?
A brahmana should not act as a shiksha guru?
That will stop the preaching wholesale!
How will the preaching go on if none of the priests can preach? On the other hand, NM supported the GBC's idea, less than brahmanas can be worshiped as uttama diksha gurus? So the less than brahmanas can pose as diksha gurus, but the actual brahmanas have to stop all their preaching, they cannot give any shiksha teaching to others. How will the Vaishnava society function if the preaching class is ordered to stop preaching?]
"At present, real gurus are very rare, and the number of fallen ritviks are now growing."
[PADA: But NM said the GBC's falling people are not ritviks, they are diksha gurus? Now he says, they were ritviks all along? No, NM said they cannot use the title of ritviks, he said these falling GBC people are diksha gurus, and he helped Tamal and SDG write up the Guru Reform program. There are no falling ritviks because they were designated as diksha gurus all along by NM and the GBC he supported.
What happened is, NM said that the GBC are diksha gurus, not ritviks, and so they started falling left, right and center, and the number of his fallen diksha gurus is growing. Right! So why did he say they are diksha gurus in the first place? A priest can fall down, a diksha guru does not? Anyway, where are all these fallen ritviks, he never says? No, NM said they are diksha gurus, then they fell, that is what happened here.]
What happened is, NM said that the GBC are diksha gurus, not ritviks, and so they started falling left, right and center, and the number of his fallen diksha gurus is growing. Right! So why did he say they are diksha gurus in the first place? A priest can fall down, a diksha guru does not? Anyway, where are all these fallen ritviks, he never says? No, NM said they are diksha gurus, then they fell, that is what happened here.]
They are doing bogus things, and you should not have any belief in them. Remain far away and careful to guard against these animal creatures. They don't know the meaning of guru-tattva. They were cheating before and now they want to cheat in this way, and therefore they are cheating themselves and others. Be very far away from them." (Apr 17, 2001)
[PADA: OK Narayana Maharaja is the person who supported Tamal, Satsvarupa, Indradyumna, Sivarama and all the rest of them as diksha gurus, and he was giving them rasika classes while they were propping up sexual predators as their acharyas. Now he says, this was all cheating. So, why was he cheating everyone by claiming these people are diksha gurus in the first place?
And if they are animals, why did he say these animals could be diksha gurus in the first place? And why does NM think the solution to his promoting Tamal and the false diksha gurus program is now to say, brahmanas are bogus and we should not have any brahmanas -- preaching on behalf of Krishna, giving shiksha? This makes no sense?
Anyway, the problems in the NM camp are growing, Prem Prayojana is being criticized for being a sahajiya because he is allegedly favorable to some of the babaji's preaching. He is also being attacked for being a fallen sannyasa, and NM apparently said only sannyasa could be his diksha successors, so Prem Prayojana is a target for the sannyasa clique, and we even heard there were death threats in their camp against him. Then we have their one sannyasa / diksha guru who is allegedly having an affair, and no one can dispute this because "his followers will beat you with sticks."
Meanwhile Prem got very sick, and how did you guess, some folks said he has "taken their karma" and this made him get sick. OK but he is not supposed to take their karma! Why didn't NM tell his clan these basic things? And one of their leaders is sort of giving diksha on behalf of NM, acting as a de facto ritvik, he understands the karma thing, but he does not know that NM is not a liberated person so he is not going to take the karma either. Meanwhile he is being attacked as a bogus ritvik, .... because he understands he cannot take karma. So anyone who understands a few basic ideas, is attacked as a fool.
And then again some NM folks are promoting other living gurus in India who are not even part of the NM program, so its sort of scattering. In any case, NM saying that brahmanas cannot act as shiksha gurus shows total ignorance of the Vedic principles, the brahmanas have A DUTY to act as shiksha gurus and preach to the innocent class. Why doesn't NM even understand the basics of the religion? Even the Christians know, the priest has to preach on behalf of Jesus, and give shiksha to others, even they know that is the duty of a priest more than NM does. Anyway, this shows how Srila Prabhupada was right when he said, do not listen to my God brothers, they will simply create confusion. ys pd]
angel108b@yahoo.com
And if they are animals, why did he say these animals could be diksha gurus in the first place? And why does NM think the solution to his promoting Tamal and the false diksha gurus program is now to say, brahmanas are bogus and we should not have any brahmanas -- preaching on behalf of Krishna, giving shiksha? This makes no sense?
Anyway, the problems in the NM camp are growing, Prem Prayojana is being criticized for being a sahajiya because he is allegedly favorable to some of the babaji's preaching. He is also being attacked for being a fallen sannyasa, and NM apparently said only sannyasa could be his diksha successors, so Prem Prayojana is a target for the sannyasa clique, and we even heard there were death threats in their camp against him. Then we have their one sannyasa / diksha guru who is allegedly having an affair, and no one can dispute this because "his followers will beat you with sticks."
Meanwhile Prem got very sick, and how did you guess, some folks said he has "taken their karma" and this made him get sick. OK but he is not supposed to take their karma! Why didn't NM tell his clan these basic things? And one of their leaders is sort of giving diksha on behalf of NM, acting as a de facto ritvik, he understands the karma thing, but he does not know that NM is not a liberated person so he is not going to take the karma either. Meanwhile he is being attacked as a bogus ritvik, .... because he understands he cannot take karma. So anyone who understands a few basic ideas, is attacked as a fool.
And then again some NM folks are promoting other living gurus in India who are not even part of the NM program, so its sort of scattering. In any case, NM saying that brahmanas cannot act as shiksha gurus shows total ignorance of the Vedic principles, the brahmanas have A DUTY to act as shiksha gurus and preach to the innocent class. Why doesn't NM even understand the basics of the religion? Even the Christians know, the priest has to preach on behalf of Jesus, and give shiksha to others, even they know that is the duty of a priest more than NM does. Anyway, this shows how Srila Prabhupada was right when he said, do not listen to my God brothers, they will simply create confusion. ys pd]
angel108b@yahoo.com
Thanks prabhu, Yes you are right, Krishna's own family has a family priest, named Gargamuni. So Krishna's family has a priest, and that makes Krishna bogus? This makes no sense at all.
ReplyDeleteKrishna says He is represented by the brahmanas / priests --- therefore, lets boycott them? This makes no sense, unless we are trying to boycott and displease Krishna? You got it! We are no longer going to have any people giving shiksha? Then who will save the conditioned souls? Maybe that is the plan? You got it! ys pd